empatheias_ooc | State of the Game: Open Forum Discussion Follow-Up

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State of the Game: Open Forum Discussion Follow-Up

— STATE OF THE GAME FOLLOW-UP —

Hey guys, Laena here! Last month I had posted an open forum discussion State of the Game to get as much feedback as possible as we head forward into the new year and plot arc of the game. There were a lot of good suggestions, as well as a few topics that were raised. So I wanted to gather the main important topics and have a follow-up feedback for anything else that may have been missed or brought up.

Again, thank you to everyone who responded, it was a blast to read and a lot of good ideas came out! I encourage everyone to look through here, and the first post, too, if there's something you'd like to add to those topics!

» FOLLOW-UP

Plot direction and types of events. Overall, it seems like we've been doing all right in terms of how we handle our events. We did mention on the first post that larger events may take longer and potentially cancel an app cycle, but in such a case we would warn a head of time and extend the app period prior to the event time. We will also try to be more open and less "vague" about events that have twists and surprises at the end so that players are more prepared to at least expect something to happen even if the specifics aren't revealed until much later.

We've also had feedback for a medium between our serious events and the festival types. It may have been because of the season, but there had been a number of festival and parties—which weren't bad! But looking back, most if not all of our lighthearted events were just parties. So we had the suggestion of trying to do a different type of lighthearted event utilizing the game setting, particularly with emotions and the various locations. That is something we can definitely try to do. In addition, we'll be cutting back our own traditional game festivals, or at least try to change them up or replace with something similar to keep things fresh and new.

Also bad ends and negative consequences. You guys are too good at being shounen protag heroes, quit it.

Another suggestion/request was for actions on excursions to affect things on the island or other places. That's definitely something we will try to do, including with the upcoming excursion this month! There was also concern that excursions may become the only source of plot clues and become the way our major types of events work. Definitely a valid concern, so while excursions will play a large part, we will not forget about our current places and characters who would not participate in said excursions. We'll try to vary it up and ensure there are opportunities for everyone. And as always, we are always open to feedback, suggestions, and requests, so do not hesitate to ask.
- Side note on player plots and actions: we will be overhauling our current Event Suggestions page to be used as a kind of "player plots and actions" directory. Basically, it's main purpose is to help us keep track of actions taken by characters that could potentially have larger effects on the world. We can't keep track of everything that happens (our stalking fu is just not high enough) and it would be easier of players could submit when something that would be noticeable by a large populace or potentially affect the city or a localized area in some way. Having players comment to do this will help and we can try to tie it in in our own way, such as test drive/intro prompts or tasks reacting to it.
  
  Additionally, it would be a place for player plots to be submitted and referenced back to. Details about the player plot will also be updated on that page for archive reference purposes. Hopefully this will help some of the confusion as to how to reach us as well as keep track as to what's happened.
  
  We'll have more details when we update, but that's the current game plan!
Emotion Tracker. So we've always heard how confusing the system is and players uncertain when they should comment or how. We had received a survey type suggestion, a prototype of which can be found here. We'll be testing it out in our upcoming excursion/events, so we'll see how it goes!
Completed Crystals. A separate question asked here, overall it looks like they can remain as a means to eventually go home. However, there was a suggestion that crystals also be a potential way to regain things from back home.

So currently, our thinking is that for long term goal, a large amount of completed crystals will be needed to activate whatever mechanism to return characters home. Since that could take as long as until endgame, that seems like a better way to handle that. The actual IC process and knowledge can be something we can build and work on in the upcoming months, though we have no set date as to how fast, how long, or even the specifics on how it would work. The last point is mostly because we think it would be cool if that players and character would need to create the device with the pieces that we give in-game. Which means there's no specific route—there could be multiple ways. Of course, we'll serve as a fallback and provide a specific means if one isn't created by the time endgame rolls around (whenever that is), but until then, we'll try and help push for character creation when the time comes.

In the short term, individual crystals can be used in several ways, all of which the character can choose:
1. Give to the Arehtei, who could receive potential boosts and just general health bonuses to itself and its domain (absorbed and destroyed);
2. Keep for personal use, like powering up various tech or in research experiments (potential to be destroyed);
3. Use on excursions where complete crystals may have special purposes, such as increased effects on the area, use as catalysts for certain purposes, and whatever else we come up with (potential to be destroyed);
4. Use to regain an item from their home world (absorbed and destroyed);
5. Keep and save for later use
By default characters can still hold onto their crystals, but if they are used it's more likely that the crystal will be destroyed, just like a traditional power-up or consumable magical item. In addition, the whole crystal completion tracker would be overhauled so that the only time someone needs to prove they have a crystal is for the regain and we'll keep the current restrictions for that.

Otherwise, we'll just follow the auto-fill mechanic and just give general reminders in our mod posts to comment for general crystal tracking. The tracking will help us determine what we can do with crystals in-game.
Test Drive as a Soft Intro. While a few players may already be doing this (and that is totally fine, by the way), there was a suggestion of making the test drive into a kind of intro log and so we're thinking of making the test drive be an official "soft" introduction for incoming characters. This would allow our actual intro logs to be something more engaging and more open to be used for small plot, parties, or festival fillers.

The test drive would still be formatted so that we'd prefer threads to not only just be "first reactions" and have at least a couple of days of settling in so it can be used for better application judging. Incoming applicants can assume the events of the test drive occurred as their real intro and CR made can carry over.

We may even allow one thread to be used as an emergency AC proof, but only as emergency. We still want players to have most of their activity in the actual game and not just camp the test drive. Additionally, the in-game "intro" log will still be formatted so that those who apply and do not use the Test Drive can still use it as their intro. If everyone is cool with the idea, we'll be happy to test it out either in the February or March cycle and see how it works. If not or if there are concerns or suggestions, we'd like to hear them!
Representatives. There has been some confusion regarding the representatives, both the political and the Arehtei ones. First of all, I'd like to immediately clear any misconception that the players involved receive any extra benefits or plot roles. They do not—in fact we've haven't really given them much to do. But the positions are all IC based to help facilitate relationships between the characters and NPCs. However, on that point, while the positions made sense early on, with the game having grown and developed the way it has, the importance has lowered a bit. Thus we'd like to hear from both the players and reps as to what they would like to see regarding the position, and especially in a way that would help not cause misunderstandings for the players.
Expand local knowledge. We'll be working on updating the pages before the week is over (hopefully), but one thing that was mentioned was including more "local" information that players could use setting wise. Like our trademark "Steambucks" or the hot springs. So we'll try and be sure to include those for reference, but if there's anything else you'd really like to see be included, let us know! (And on that front re: updating pages, we will also try to wrestle and try to pare down things to make the giant mass that is Empatheias easier to understand, both on the OOC and IC standpoint.)

I think that's everything, but if I've missed something please feel free to bring it up! And again, you're welcome to add anything else you want in your comments.

While this "open forum" is mostly directly for me to answer, you are free to discuss with one another as well. Bounce ideas and opinions off each other! It's how we got a few of the ideas mentioned above, so definitely feel free to give input.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Quick question in regards to item regains - can these regains be items that a character owns / has owned or can it be any item in seen in their canon that pertains to them?

The example I have in mind, specifically is (under a spoiler cut for SDR2 spoilers):

Would it be possible for Hinata to regain items from the Neo World Program that he obtained from the Monomono Yachine/chapters or would that be a no go, considering his canon point?

The type of items regained is something we'd have to figure out still, but I can say that it is more likely that it's something that the character actually owns/had possession of instead of just any potential item. There are likely going to be size, type, and power limits as well.

Okay, cool thanks for the heads up mods!

As a representative, I'd love to have more concrete stuff to do, if only to validate the existence of the role more. Jude at least is ICly very interested in helping Piphron out as his situation hits a lot of similarities to canon events.

Other than that though... I really don't think making the test drive the Empatheias-canon intro situation makes much sense (especially if it's still not intended to cover the character's first day. Most people want to thread out the initial reaction to some degree, even if it's just locked to a single person, which could lead to a lot more timeline issues than already happen!) The threads on the test drive are meant to be used for the application, which means they should showcase characterization in a broad sense. A thread that assumes that the new character has been in the game for a bit and already met the character he's speaking to will make a much stronger app than a thread that is "where is this and who are you." Of course if something really cool happens in a thread I support the players agreeing to make it canon but that should really be an exception, not the norm.

Yeah, that's definitely doable! If there's anything specific you'd like Jude to do or have an idea, like more hands on with Piphron relation or something with his domain, toss it our way and we can definitely work something out.

As for the test drive, that's definitely a valid concern, but I'll open this up to the general floor for those who either share the same concern or have experience with this kind of set-up to chime in.

This is probably going to be redundant after the first question above, but what about regaining an item that the character possessed but was destroyed well before their current canonpoint?

Hmm... That might be something I'd have to discuss with the others first, and again it may depend what it is. I wouldn't count it completely out yet, but definitely will be considered!

Thought it might be something like that. The item's fate is plot related, so spoilers, but I eagerly await news on what you guys come up with.

Re: item regains, I have a serious question and a stupid one.

Serious question: I've already seen some confusion on plurk on this point, so asking for clarification on this: is what gets regained up to the character to ask for, or are they ICly rolling the dice on it and what comes out is up to player decision instead?

Stupid question: Voltron cast wants to know that since the Lions are obviously way too big to be regained as-is, can we get shrunk down versions instead?

I'm sorry I just wanted to mention I read this, and all I could imagine was like all of them getting kid-sized versions of their lions like transforming toys.

Serious: That's also something we have yet to iron out yet, but my initial thinking would be actual specifics. This is just me rambling and definitely not concrete, but if that were the case then what would likely happy is if a character requested something that could not actually be allowed in, then the process would fail and the crystal would not be used. That means they can try again until a regain is successful.

Lol: I'll have to get back to you on those but that's something we can consider as a potential possibility if we allowed such large vehicles/mechs.

HI I'm gonna be another of those annoying excited regains people and ask for most people who get like 5 pokemanz or 5 personaz can they request more of those as regainz.

That is definitely something I am considering! Not a guarantee, but if it does happen then it would only be one more to match the general 1 crystal = 1 item.

Haha no worries, I felt like it was better to ask now then wait later! If it doesn't happen it's no big issue for me. ♥

~~Can Lash regain a Black Crystal and use it to siphon the energy from the planet.~~

Definitely cool, helps me, too, to keep things in mind!

As for the other thing

AWWWW MAN

A rundown of the local fauna would help me, re: local flavor ;) ~~I need Abi to fight a giant slug or something is that possible~~

It is true we don't have a bestiary... It would be kind of neat if just a little difficult to maintain (unless someone would like to help ~~winkwinkatplayersatlarge~~). That said, we do allow players a great deal of freedom creativity when it comes to what kind of animals are around! So if there is something like a giant slug you'd like for your character to encounter, you can just ping us to see if it's okay and we can give the go ahead.

(for the record yes on giant slug)

~~Oh I wish I could~~ Thank you for giant slug. Being able to double-check it with you all is just as good though, don't worry.

This started out as a regain thing but now it isn't but I'm going to ask here anyway because it has to do with using completed crystals for things and maybe someone else will have a similar idea:

So in Pandora Hearts world, there are two kinds of Contracts with the ~~demons~~ Chains. There's the one Kevin had, wherein the Contract was etched into his flesh and he was driven to kill a lot of people, and there's the one the Pandora people had, where the Contract was displaced onto a special mirror pendant so the Contractor could use the Chain but not have to feed it in return. We have zero information as to how the mirror is special, just that the guy who started Pandora figured out how to make it work, so probably there's some weird canonical magical woo to it.

Say my cast worked some further magical woo in which Gil's canonical ability to access the Abyss and Kevin's canonical ability to march right into the center of it instead of getting eaten were combined, and though they couldn't get home they could at least reach the Abyss itself, and thus have access to Chains. Could Kevin use one of his completed crystals in place of one of those special mirrors, and make a non-deadly Contract? Since the crystal is already aligned to him and full of his emotions, it seems like it would be an excellent substitute for "let me chew on your soul".

After talking it over with the others, we think that in this case while it might be possible to pull something out of the Abyss, it would have to restricted to what they actually have. This would be in line with the general idea that we're thinking of that characters can only regain their own possessions.

We also think that it may be possible to pull something from past or future, but likely with some additional requirements, such as giving proofs and possibly needing additional crystals depending on the object.

Mm, yeah. This wouldn't be one of the Chains he himself is Contracted to in canon, but rather, a Chain that he often uses in a partnership with one of his closest people -- it's Contracted to Sharon Rainsworth, but she has it ride around in ~~Grown-Up Kevin~~ Break's shadow a lot of the time so she can use it to eavesdrop. And, since it's capable of creating portals through shadows, Break occasionally uses it to disappear into cabinets and pop out from beneath tables. (This ability would be restricted in Emp, since there's not much by way of Abyssal influence to strengthen it. He could pop to and from work, perhaps, but not all the way across the island or off of it.) Our idea was that he'd meet the Chain in a time bubble after Sharon had relinquished her Contract, so the Chain would remember him, or rather his future self, and come to investigate.

The catch here is that the Chain in question is a flaming purple unicorn. Between Celestia and Peromei, Kevin's got a penchant for unicorn critters lately. The Chain being willing to eventually Contract with him when he canonically is given the Mad Hatter would be a nice mark of how he's become his own person in game regardless of Xerxes Break, and I also liked the idea of his old shadows becoming something he felt he could use, rather than a nasty reminder of his darker thoughts and insecurities, something to be punted away.

I'm super happy for this to be a slow-burn plot with proofs and crystals and I certainly wasn't going to have him go for a Contract as soon as he sees the thing, but if all of this sounds too special snowflakey, I'll drop the idea.

On the topic of representatives:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say that I never actually intended for the position to be anything other than that of a figurehead. They're representatives to a Council that is poorly disposed to their represented group, so any ideas the council reps get will likely be tabled anyway. In fact, the only reason Gordon took a step forward (Or rather, got distracted and didn't take a step back along with everyone else) was because I needed to expand his CR and work with other characters, and it was fun to put him in a position where he had to use his words, something he's not used to doing.

That being said, I'm pretty easygoing with any changes you guys decide on. If you want to eliminate the positions altogether, I don't have a problem with that. If you want to give the council reps a new purpose, like relating new and irritating laws to the Otherworlders, that would be interesting too. If you want to keep it as-is, then that's great. I'm fine with anything, as long as we're all on the same page about it.

Edited 2017-01-11 11:05 (UTC)

There are a few political things that we could take advantage on, especially with the introduction of Shaarnath and Theastai now interacting with each other and Verens. The disposition toward Otherworlders should also have eased up by now, so that could be also be something reflected.

But to help us along, is there anything in particular that you as a player or Gordon as a character may be interested in pursuing? Like any ideas, conflicts, or interests that may help flesh the minor but still interesting aspect of the world?

Just throwing in my own 2 cents while the universe seems to do everything in its power to screw me over:

I would really like to see representatives have a bit more to do. Nothing that would effect the main story obviously but at least the feeling of accomplishing something. Emizel's reason was mainly was for character growth/self-esteem so it would be nice to see that pay off. ~~Being biffles with Peromei would be rad too.~~ But obviously that's just me. The only suggestion I got is maybe a micro taskboard where a rep might be needed, plus several other members of the same corresponding Arehtei alignment (for balancing reasons)? Although that would probably lead to a bunch of problems too, I don't really know.

Nothing else Emizel might just start digging deeper into the history of Arehtei reps, once I have the time. Especially after getting the few deets about Daimonia's.

I also know that some reps have dropped out of the game since the system came into place. I think every Arehtei still has at least one, but how/will more be chosen from here on?

I think other than that I really like to see the world just a bit more fleshed out. A bestiary as mentioned above would be amazing, even if it is operated by players. I think even one for places of interest would be good too if there isn't one already. iirc Shaarnath did have a worldbuilding post but I can't find it now. And I don't remember anything for Verens or Theasthai.

Then again, I'm awful at keeping up with everything.

Hmm... My only concern about the taskboard is I remember the Enforcers group used to have one but that was one of the reasons why there was a sense of exclusivity :|a So I don't want you guys to go under fire for that. That said, we could try to come up with tasks that would be open for everyone, but a rep could potentially take and use for their purposes, too. Like take their own spin on it. This would of course require reps to be proactive in utilizing such tasks, but I think the task board may actually be the best way for reps to pick up on things. Especially for aligned specific things.

Otherwise, reps are definitely encouraged to come up with ideas or plots on their own! Like if you think of something that Emizel may be interested in for Peromei, you're more than welcome to bring it up with us and we can try to work something out that way.

As for reps—we're going to do a check on our current reps as well as see where this discussion goes and where interest lies. That said, there have been a couple of characters and players that have expressed some interest in becoming reps and approached us, so that's been happening as well. We'll do an interest check, though and proceed from there.

We haven't had a designated worldbuilding post for Verens or Theasthai, but we've had posts and encouragement for any general suggestions, which we've received in the past! Beastiary would be handy for Emp no, but yeah, the man hurdle is taking the time to go through and figure that out. But it's something I've thought about, like at least going through the past monster hunt tasks.

Now that I'm not so busy. I won't rehash what I said last time. but I do want to reiterate that I'd definitely like to as a rep take things further. As mentioned previously, Komaeda wants to research why the post-cataclysm people lost their connections to the Arehtei and what the camps are about. Including where those people are now.

Whatever he digs into I'll have him spread around as always. Maybe I can use this to put tasks on the task board for other people. This isn't a topic he can fully explore on his own and I agree that a task board for reps alone would give off an air of exclusivity. Whether reps are kept or not, I definitely want to help put more out there in ways to help others get into the plot or world building that have the desire to.

I was slow with it due to holidays, but I'd like him to give Peromei updates and work with her to help boost her in ways that isn't just emotion boosts.

I'm still kicking around the ideas but I'll definitely have something concrete to work with and present to yall. Again as always thank you all for listening and for your time.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

State of the Game: Open Forum Discussion Follow-Up

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